1 00:00:02,230 --> 00:00:10,809 (Radio Traffic) 879 is taxiing into position on runway 23 for takeoff and Iíll wait for 2 00:00:10,809 --> 00:00:11,809 the traffic to clear the runway. 3 00:00:11,809 --> 00:00:12,809 Pilot: Tanker 879 is rolling. 4 00:00:12,809 --> 00:00:13,809 Dispatch: Copy 879, I have you at 1524. 5 00:00:13,809 --> 00:00:14,809 Pilot: Coeur ëdíAlene Dispatch, Tanker 879 National Flight 6 00:00:14,809 --> 00:00:15,809 Dispatch: 879, Dispatch 7 00:00:15,809 --> 00:00:44,460 Pilot: Yeah, Tanker 879 is off Coeur ëdíAlene at this time en route to the Alder Creek Fire. 8 00:00:44,460 --> 00:00:58,960 Steve: My name is Steve Willey, I fly single engine airtankers for Queen Bee Air Specialties 9 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,070 out of Rigby, Idaho. 10 00:01:00,070 --> 00:01:04,440 I have nine seasons of crop dusting, seven seasons of firefighting and I think about 11 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:05,861 nineteen years Iíve been flying now. 12 00:01:05,861 --> 00:01:11,820 A typical airspeed, cruise 150 miles per hour. 13 00:01:11,820 --> 00:01:19,770 Our drop speeds are kind of like a landing configuration-120 miles per hour full flaps. 14 00:01:19,770 --> 00:01:25,240 Weíre a little slower than a heavy airtanker, but we can work off of airfields closer to 15 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:26,240 the fire. 16 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:35,420 Iím comfortable on a 4,000 foot strip and with a five minute turn times, we can haul 17 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:38,360 a lot more retardant in less time. 18 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,170 Joe: My name is Joe Bates, Iím the Aviation Safety Program Manager for the Bureau of Land 19 00:01:42,170 --> 00:01:43,170 Management. 20 00:01:43,170 --> 00:01:47,780 Iíve been in fire for thirty-six years, a lot of time on the districts, helitack, hotshots, 21 00:01:47,780 --> 00:01:52,930 AFMO and FMO and Air Attack for the last 22 years. 22 00:01:52,930 --> 00:01:58,390 SEAT tanks have the ability through the computer settings to put out fifty gallons, one hundred 23 00:01:58,390 --> 00:02:00,260 gallons, two hundred gallons at a shot. 24 00:02:00,260 --> 00:02:03,250 They can do a fair amount of artwork. 25 00:02:03,250 --> 00:02:08,890 An eight hundred gallon SEAT can do eight, one hundred gallon drops if thatís what you 26 00:02:08,890 --> 00:02:09,890 want them to do. 27 00:02:09,890 --> 00:02:16,780 So youíre not looking at coming in to drop eight hundred gallons on a single tree- you 28 00:02:16,780 --> 00:02:17,909 just canít do that. 29 00:02:17,909 --> 00:02:22,459 Youíd probably have to come over and drop two hundred gallons, four times or something. 30 00:02:22,459 --> 00:02:26,360 So those are the things that they need to think about as opposed to a heavy helicopter 31 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,070 coming out and letting two thousand gallons of water out in one spot. 32 00:02:30,070 --> 00:02:31,550 Firefighter: What weíre going to try to do at this time is on the Eastern side of the 33 00:02:31,550 --> 00:02:35,040 fire where its backing down into Bedrock Canyon here, weíre going to, we have one home thatís 34 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,709 up in there that weíre going to try and knock the flames back. 35 00:02:37,709 --> 00:02:39,560 Probably start from the river up canyon from there. 36 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,560 Pilot. 37 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,230 Okay, south and east side of the fire so the right shoulder? 38 00:02:42,230 --> 00:02:57,660 And thereís a house down in there, correct? 39 00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:04,090 Joe: You really need to put some thought into briefing the SEAT pilot and what the components 40 00:03:04,090 --> 00:03:08,280 of your briefing should be and you should try and be consistent with that briefing from 41 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,299 pilot to pilot, airplane to airplane. 42 00:03:10,299 --> 00:03:15,639 When the airplane is coming on scene, the first thing you want to do with them is establish 43 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,230 communication. 44 00:03:17,230 --> 00:03:22,530 You want to be able to describe to them the location that theyíre going to be working 45 00:03:22,530 --> 00:03:24,060 on the fire. 46 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:29,689 We like to try and stay away from cardinal points just because a lot of times-especially 47 00:03:29,689 --> 00:03:36,010 on the ground if you donít have a compass out, you know, your north may be east in the 48 00:03:36,010 --> 00:03:41,939 airplane and vice versa depending on the workload and they understand the ICS system, they understand 49 00:03:41,939 --> 00:03:48,579 how we lay out a fire by the heel, by the shoulder, by the head, etc. 50 00:03:48,579 --> 00:03:54,569 Target description things, do you want to go direct on this hot snag, or do you want 51 00:03:54,569 --> 00:03:57,459 us to build a line around the snag? 52 00:03:57,459 --> 00:04:01,250 Do you want us to reinforce the line below it? 53 00:04:01,250 --> 00:04:02,250 Above it? 54 00:04:02,250 --> 00:04:03,739 You know, exactly what do you want? 55 00:04:03,739 --> 00:04:07,331 The type of drop and the coverage levels, so do you want the whole load do you want 56 00:04:07,331 --> 00:04:08,410 half the load? 57 00:04:08,410 --> 00:04:11,409 Coverage level 2, 3 or 4? 58 00:04:11,409 --> 00:04:14,340 What hazards might be out there, and thatís really a big one. 59 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:19,571 Next, you want to be able to make sure they understand whether the line is clear, whether 60 00:04:19,571 --> 00:04:20,970 the line is not clear. 61 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:25,040 And if they donít ask you that, donít make that assumption. 62 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,910 You need to tell them whether or not the line is clear so that they can drop safety. 63 00:04:29,910 --> 00:04:33,550 Steve: What I would like to hear, is what their overall objective is and what theyíre 64 00:04:33,550 --> 00:04:35,700 trying to accomplish with the fire. 65 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:37,390 Where their priorities are. 66 00:04:37,390 --> 00:04:40,340 Some sort of briefing, not just, do whatever you think. 67 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:42,630 Thatís what I donít want to hear. 68 00:04:42,630 --> 00:04:47,890 What I think may not be what they have in mind and I donít see everything on the ground. 69 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:50,060 I donít know where the firefighters are. 70 00:04:50,060 --> 00:04:54,510 Iíd like to know where theyíre at in relation to the fire. 71 00:04:54,510 --> 00:04:56,060 That would help me out a lot as well. 72 00:04:56,060 --> 00:04:57,890 Firefighter: Tanker 879 Vosberg. 73 00:04:57,890 --> 00:04:59,720 Steve: Go ahead, Vosberg. 74 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,220 Firefighter: Just a head up on some possible hazards-powerlines, just donít get too close 75 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:02,220 to them. 76 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:04,530 Steve: Okay, thanks and what would you like to have us do on this one? 77 00:05:04,530 --> 00:05:06,580 Looks like you have a pretty large tree smoldering there. 78 00:05:06,580 --> 00:05:07,770 Is it much bigger on the ground? 79 00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:09,790 Firefighter: A direct suppression hit on the tree and all of the fire activity is in the 80 00:05:09,790 --> 00:05:10,790 tree, there is very little on the ground. 81 00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:26,680 Steve: If the area is clear, I will go ahead and make my run and go live. 82 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:43,710 Firefighter: We will clear the area and reassess after the first drop. 83 00:05:43,710 --> 00:06:02,390 Steve: Okay, sounds good. 84 00:06:02,390 --> 00:06:07,078 And I will be setting up for the downwind for the live run and the gate is armed, line 85 00:06:07,078 --> 00:06:08,078 is clear. 86 00:06:08,078 --> 00:06:10,650 Steve: I think the most critical phase is probably just prior to the drop. 87 00:06:10,650 --> 00:06:18,310 Is when our airspeeds are slow, our power is usually at an idle or back, and our concentration 88 00:06:18,310 --> 00:06:25,420 is on whatís out in front of us-looking for anything that might have been missed or overlooked. 89 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:30,790 Whether its snags or powerlines, anything like that-other aircraft. 90 00:06:30,790 --> 00:06:35,930 Joe: The single pilot cockpit with a SEAT-youíre just a little bit doubled up on the workload. 91 00:06:35,930 --> 00:06:40,000 Youíre still having to manipulate the controls of the aircraft, potentially re-program a 92 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,490 radio, change frequencies, stuff like that. 93 00:06:42,490 --> 00:06:51,550 Steve: A single pilot is handling all of the tasks of that aircraft, that are required 94 00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:54,480 to fly that aircraft all on his own. 95 00:06:54,480 --> 00:07:00,270 He doesnít have a co-pilot or someone to help him with radio calls. 96 00:07:00,270 --> 00:07:05,120 The worst place to get a radio call is short final to the drop seconds before the drop 97 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:11,400 is probably the worst time to get a radio call or anything like that. 98 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:18,760 Itís very distracting, because youíre constantly cross checking your gauges and terrain and 99 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,300 obstacles. 100 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:25,790 Trying to make sure youíre not descending too low over the canopy-getting too close 101 00:07:25,790 --> 00:07:29,990 to the trees or whatever youíre dropping over. 102 00:07:29,990 --> 00:07:34,470 And the 802 isnít a hands off flying airplane. 103 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:38,700 It requires hands on all the time. 104 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:48,130 If you let go of the stick, the airplane will just start pitching and rolling. 105 00:07:48,130 --> 00:07:58,190 Joe: You just need to provide them some feedback on how the drop was. 106 00:07:58,190 --> 00:07:59,420 Was the drop long? 107 00:07:59,420 --> 00:08:00,420 Was it short? 108 00:08:00,420 --> 00:08:02,510 Do you think maybe theyíre going too fast? 109 00:08:02,510 --> 00:08:03,510 Too high? 110 00:08:03,510 --> 00:08:04,510 Too low? 111 00:08:04,510 --> 00:08:05,510 And be honest. 112 00:08:05,510 --> 00:08:10,700 Part of the problem that weíre having sometime is we get into this mode where we tell everybody, 113 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:12,960 hey this is a good drop-load and return. 114 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,080 And that just gets to be the standard that we utilize when really we could be providing 115 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,670 a lot more accurate feedback. 116 00:08:18,670 --> 00:08:23,390 They want that feedback because they take pride in their work and they want to do it 117 00:08:23,390 --> 00:08:24,390 the right way. 118 00:08:24,390 --> 00:08:32,430 Steve: What I want to hear after a drop from the firefighters on the ground is accuracy-if 119 00:08:32,430 --> 00:08:36,940 I was late or early, uh wind drift, if it drifted off target. 120 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:40,830 Those are the things that help me come back and make another drop. 121 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:45,529 Joe: Is this where you wanted the drop to start? 122 00:08:45,529 --> 00:08:48,199 Did it tie into the previous drop? 123 00:08:48,199 --> 00:08:49,819 Was there good overlap there? 124 00:08:49,819 --> 00:08:53,529 Are we building good strong, secure fireline? 125 00:08:53,529 --> 00:08:57,829 A good retardant drop should have just minimal forward momentum. 126 00:08:57,829 --> 00:09:03,990 I mean if you can get it to come down like rain, thatís a good retardant drop. 127 00:09:03,990 --> 00:09:09,470 And you can tell sometime if theyíve dropped too low, too fast. 128 00:09:09,470 --> 00:09:11,800 You can get some, what they call shadowing. 129 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:17,450 So if you have vertical fuels there on the ground-sagebrush, grass whatever thatís standing 130 00:09:17,450 --> 00:09:22,730 up and just one side of that fuel is coated, then thatís referred to as shadowing. 131 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:28,190 So thatís an ineffective drop because the backside of the fuel isnít coated and the 132 00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:32,129 fire has the ability to burn through your line because of that. 133 00:09:32,129 --> 00:09:36,160 A lot of times, you can look and see that thereís actually been vegetation disturbed 134 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,180 on the ground, broken. 135 00:09:39,180 --> 00:09:42,110 That obviously is the result of a drop that is too low. 136 00:09:42,110 --> 00:09:47,510 You know, the minimum drop height is sixty feet; the most effective drop height is eighty 137 00:09:47,510 --> 00:09:49,069 to one hundred feet. 138 00:09:49,069 --> 00:09:52,879 In a single engine airtanker, the wingspan is right at sixty feet. 139 00:09:52,879 --> 00:09:58,399 So if you look at it from wing tip to wing tip, and you visualize the airplane being 140 00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:03,579 on its side, thatís the roughly a good rule of thumb for what the minimum drop height 141 00:10:03,579 --> 00:10:05,309 of sixty feet is. 142 00:10:05,309 --> 00:10:10,339 If you have forty foot vegetation, that doesnít mean that you should be dropping twenty feet 143 00:10:10,339 --> 00:10:11,339 over it. 144 00:10:11,339 --> 00:10:16,680 That means you should be dropping sixty foot minimum above the top of that forty foot tree. 145 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:23,370 Steve: Weíre there to help them on the ground. 146 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:29,300 My goal is to help the guys on the ground and to support them. 147 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:31,490 Thatís my last word. 148 00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:34,949 Iím there for them. 149 00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:52,089 Steve: Coerd díAlene Dispatch, Tanker 879 on National 150 00:10:52,089 --> 00:10:54,610 Dispatch: Ya 879, go ahead. 151 00:10:54,610 --> 00:10:57,699 Steve: Ya 879 is on the ground.